Do Mormons Think They’re Better Than Christians?
From counterfeiting cult to political powerhouse, Mormons have come a long way in America. Problems of polygamy and polytheism have been cast aside as Christians of all colors and creeds realize that we need to form a united front in the current cultural landscape. Abortion, “homosexual” marriage, the rise of Islam, teen pregnancy, drug abuse– there are far too many critical issues that need to be addressed today. The incredible strength, wealth and reach of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) is a force that cannot be sidelined in the United States at such a vital junction.
The question that needs to be asked today is what sort of relationship should mainstream Christianity form with the Mormon movement. How can we align ourselves politically without casting our lot with those that we might ultimately condemn spiritually? How can we seek to understand the Latter Day Saints and show them compassion, while possibly turning them away from sin and welcoming them into the arms of True Faith?
In this dire economy, many Christian churches across the nation are suffering. Fewer and fewer people are tithing and those who do are earning less. Organizations representing family values are struggling to fundraise. Worst of all, we are living in an incredibly combative time in our culture, when the greatest issues of morality are being fought outside of our churches. From the national media to the Washington mall, people are organizing and spreading messages in every way possible. But this costs money.
The LDS is one of the most cash-rich religious organizations in the world. It is estimated that they own 0.7% of Florida alone. As one investigation concluded:
“The PBS special ‘The Mormons’ estimated the LDS Church is worth some $80 Billion. That estimate is probably low. It’s likely worth over $100 Billion as it is the wealthiest per capita religion in the world with annual tax-free revenues estimated to be $6 Billion per year. The LDS Church owns 928,000 acres in North America, is the largest ranch land owner in Wyoming, is the 2nd largest land owner in Nebraska (Ted Turner #1), has the largest cattle ranch in 48 states (Adjacent to Disneyworld in Florida), is the largest foreign landowner in UK. The LDS Church owns several businesses, numerous radio and television stations, its own insurance company, and is rumored to be the largest single producer of commercial beef in the USA. They own enormous properties in Hawaii including a Marriott hotel franchise in Hawaii, the Polynesian Cultural Center (which is the most visited tourist attraction in Hawaii), as well as of course Brigham Young University and thousands of chapels and meetinghouses worldwide. They also own shopping malls, are involved in property development and own enormous quantities of stock in many corporations.” –The Mormon Thinkers Organization.
The Mormons have miraculously turned those raw numbers into brash political power. How else to explain the Olympics being located in Salt Lake in 2002? The rise of Mitt Romney as governor of both Utah and Massachusetts and later as a true presidential contender despite his irrefutable dullness proves that this religion can take the mainstream, just as Catholic John Kennedy broke a similar barrier 50 years ago. The resources that the LDS has put behind legislative and voter movements across the country to stop “gay” marriage are a further testament of the growing acceptability of Mormon money. Maggie Gallagher, a Catholic who heads the National Organization of Marriage, relied heavily on the LDS for the Proposition 8 fight in California. In more recent news, the millions who marched on Washington, D.C. in a mutli-denominational show of support for Christianity and Patriotism was stunning. Even more stunning was that this march was led by Glenn Beck, a faithful Mormon.
On the other hand, the beliefs of Mormonism are considered by almost everyone as genuinely anti-Christian. They deny the sanctity of the Holy Trinity, they believe God exists with human-like flesh and bones, and that 19th-century ex-con Joseph Smith was a true prophet. The Book of Mormon states quite clearly that when Smith asked of God which was the true Christian faith:
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” –JSH 1:19.
Other Mormon writings have expanded upon this idea and have proclaimed very specifically that they are indeed better than Christians. While they may not state this today openly, they truly believe that all religions, including all Christian religions, are either wrong or the work of Satan:
“What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world” –Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270.
“Christianity…is a perfect pack of nonsense…the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.” –John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 167.
“Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.” –Journal of Discourses, 10:127.
After years of hardcore indoctrination and strict discipline, there are many who escape the LDS control with an exhausted and broken-hearted disposition. No wonder there are literally hundreds of thousands who describe themselves as “Ex-Mormons” and tap into an incredible support network to make that difficult transition back to normal human society afterward. (For those of you interested, I highly recommend this Ex-Mormon Facebook group as a great place to start, but be warned, they have been known to display symptoms of Liberalism at times.)
Understanding this, it is thoroughly important that Christians tread forward carefully and with a fully calculated game plan. Maybe money is the key. There is precedent for giving Mormonism a special status within our community in return for significant considerations. We could look at it as a sort of tithe to be welcomed into America’s Christian promise. This was done very effectively with Judaism. Once seen as the antithesis of Evangelical Christianity, Orthodox Jews have made impressive inroads in the last 50 years with the conservative movement by donating heavily to conservative candidates, supporting multi-denominational organizations, opening their nation to Christian investment and tourism and with Israel’s huge expenditures on American military products, all proving that shared resources and shared goals make a truly fruitful alliance.
A humane and spiritual idea would be if the LDS let Christians assume control of 10% of their assets each year. It would show that they are truly committed to American patriotism and the power of Christianity. It we prove that they are not a dangerous, radical element. It would reassure many Evangelicals that we have friends. Truly, in our heart of hearts, we cannot forgive their egregious sin of denying the faith of true Christianity. Yes, I realize Mormons will read this and will understand our motivations but for now this is mutually beneficial. As we associate with these sorts of people, it gives us an incredible opportunity to bring the word of God into their hearts, the TRUE word of God. Think of the potential of converting millions of Mormons into Christians! They may have made inroads in foreign countries across the globe, in fact they were merely whetting the appetites of those third worlders for the true Holy Spirit that we are impressively capable of delivering.
I am reminded of how Roman emperors (and oddly enough, the Mafia) used to control new gangs that bordered their territory. They would overwhelm them with sheer might, knock off a leader or two, and then cede some power to one of their lieutenants, demanding that this man keep his own people in check. We should welcome the Mormon people into the Christian fold without embracing the entire LDS leadership and its most heinous beliefs. Maybe we need to find a few sympathetic members of their governing council, known as the “Quorum of the Twelve Apostles,” who could embrace our long-term vision of American Evangelical Christian primacy. I see this as a great start for the Mormons gaining legitimacy in this country. For a group of people who so flagrantly believe they are better than Christians, it’s simply the right thing to do. We need to be very watchful, however, because Mormons are a crafty and industrious people, quick with their little books and flimsy magazines as they are with their wallets. Left to their own devices, they would most likely start marrying each and every one of their 12-year-old nieces again and printing out fake currency to pawn off on unsuspecting tourists and Native Americans. But that was the past, these people have to grow out of these juvenile antics. They have to understand it’s vital for their future and ultimately for their survival to embrace the mainstream. They need to abandon some of their worst practices, bury the Warren Jeffs out there, and then prove financially that they’re with us. Over time, this would also give the Christian Evangelical community the unique opportunity to start assuming control of Mormon leadership positions and their assets, until they are entirely dependent on the conservatives in this country (and not vice-versa!).
** I would like to heartily thank the ExMormon Research Institute for their support and assistance in the preparation of this article. I appreciate your help my friends!**
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Author: Stephenson Billings
Stephenson Billings is an Investigative Journalist, Motivational Children's Party Entertainer and Antique Soda Bottle Collector all in one special, blessed package! Facebook me here or Fanmail me: StephensonBillings@yahoo.com !
5:27 pm
holy fucking hell you are arogant and respectless. and you ask us to show respect for your faith? you can’t even show respect for mormons who is at least kinda close to your own belifs.
let me ask you one question: do christians belive they are better than mormons? if so WHY!?!? what gives you that right? what give you the right to question them whille at the same time denying others that same priviledge when it comes to your own faith.
you honestly just sugested that they should give you part of their money so that you can tell them why they are wrong? what the fuck kind of drugs are you on?
if you can’t throwh anything of value on the table why should they share their money with you?
they have a difrent belif system go cry me a fucking river. ever heard of the freedom of relegion? they can belive what ever they fucking like and you should stay the fuck out of it.
as for the stupid as fuck question in the titel. ofcourse they fucking do. they belive they are right. therefor anyone not agreeing with them must be wrong. and ofcourse they belive that them being right and you being wrong that they are better than you.l it’s kinda the same way as when you look down on people who isn’t christian. but then again you aren’t aware that other people have minds of their own or feelings for that matter you freaking sociopath.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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9:28 am
Mormon views towards Christianity is best summed up in this quote I used:
“Christianity…is a perfect pack of nonsense…the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.” –John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 167.
Can the divide between them and us be any clearer? This is a necessary issues more and more mainstream Christians lie in bed with Mormonism. I was particularly shocked about the recent march on Washington, when people were led by Glenn Beck. I certainly respect that man’s political views but he’s casting himself as some sort of prophet and if that’s leading people away from Christianity into Mormonism, don’t you think that’s dangerous? Why are there so many ex-Mormon groups and so few ex-Baptist or ex-Protestant ones? Don’t you see there is an incredible monopoly that Mormonism places on the personal lives of its followers? There is ample reason why so many people, Christian and non-Christian alike, would describe the LDS as a cult.
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5:23 pm
i only feel a danger when i’ve been treathen either by words or actions. mormons have done nothing against me in this regard. christians do all the time. you are the danger and i figth you with all my power. if you got over your liuttle superiorty complex you might understand that.
also once again way to dodge the questions. what gives you the right to tell these people that what they belive is wrong if others don’t have the right to tell you the same thing?
what right do you have to ask them to give you money just so you can “help them undersatnd they are wrong”?
you are so fucking arogant about this i don’t know how to deal with this.
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5:41 pm
You, sir, are a dumb ass. I know several Mormons. Zero of them have said that about Christianity. In fact, some have said that you share some similar views. PLEASE stop writing about things that you don’t know about.
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6:27 pm
Ya know, it’s funny, if you switch every instance of Mormon and Christian with each other (i.e. read the title as “Do Christians Think They’re Better Than Mormons” and so on), this becomes actually tolerable.
Stevie, you’re nothing but an arrogant prick. You’re hated by everyone, even those of your own faith, God’s abandoned you for your charades, you’re nothing but a miser now. You’ve sunk so low that no one pities you.
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9:31 am
Comedian, I don’t think your comment is true at all and I am very sorry if people truly feel “hatred” towards me in their hearts. I hope they can move past such petty feelings and embrace faith with me. I am here to share love and welcome in an era of Christian peace. That said, I think what I’m reporting here isn’t exactly a surprise news story. The question of whether Mormons are Christians is hotly debated all over the internet. You need to do your research and stop acting as if I’m just inventing everything (that’s become some a common stratagem of your attacks, it’s getting rather dull, old friend.)
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10:45 am
“I am very sorry if people truly feel “hatred” towards me in their hearts.”
Oh that hatred towards you is very real, Billings; no need for the quotation marks around it.
Actually, I don’t just hate you. I despise you with every fiber of my being.
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9:14 pm
//Comedian, I don’t think your comment is true at all and I am very sorry if people truly feel “hatred” towards me in their hearts.//
Why shouldn’t we hate you? All you want to do is spread misinformation and act like a damn saint for it. You act like people should be kissing your ass because you’ve ‘blessed’ them with the knowledge that does nothing but endanger themselves. You literally don’t know jack shit about whatever subjects you talk about, and yet you try to pass yourself as an expert of all things you involve yourself in.
//I hope they can move past such petty feelings and embrace faith with me. I am here to share love and welcome in an era of Christian peace.//
No, you’re here because you want to lie to everyone, to tell people they’re wrong for believing in their way of faith unless it’s a 100% match to your own idea, and you feel no remorse for wanting to suppress those individuals however you can.
//That said, I think what I’m reporting here isn’t exactly a surprise news story.//
Blogging, not reporting.
//The question of whether Mormons are Christians is hotly debated all over the internet.//
What about the question “Do Christians Think They’re Better Than Mormons?”, because it seems like that’s exactly what you think, seeing as how you want them to hand you money simply because.
//You need to do your research and stop acting as if I’m just inventing everything (that’s become some a common stratagem of your attacks, it’s getting rather dull, old friend.)//
You DO invent everything, you come up with random ideas and try to get other people’s evidence and try to link it to your own. What little research you do is only going to people who already agree with you, use their evidence, and try to pass it off as if it’s a legit source, even though a source that’s bias as all hell would only work with mad-man logic, the kind you employ on a daily basis.
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7:03 pm
I like the picture where it looks like God is ordering the Salt Lake Temple to beat the crap out of Nancy Pelosi.
Just an FYI Mr. Billings -
Most online ex-Mormons are atheists. So yeah, you probably want to be more than a little cautious about advising your readership to sign up for some ex-Mormon reading.
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9:32 am
Hi Seth, there is no photo of Nancy Pelosi in my article but I do think the point you make about ex-Mormons being atheists is an interesting one. I would love to see the data on that one, it would be fascinating to know if Mormonism was so Anti-Christian it was turning people in hardcore atheists.
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11:15 am
You know what would be more fascinating?
You providing your “journalistic credentials”.
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9:19 pm
You seriously think that Atheists are trying to take over in some way? Buddy, Atheists are just people who don’t believe in any sort of deity, only the retarded minor vocals are the ones that want to take down religion, every other atheist will just go “have fun with that” when told that someone else is a Christian or a Jew or whatever. They don’t give two shits about it, and like any normal person, WILL fight with someone when that person insists that they’re wrong and argue with them about it, LIKE YOU.
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7:14 pm
You know, I’ve had Mormon friends for years and have prayed to my Christian God to help them realize the true faith. Jesus warned us about mormonism as a “disease that is masked as a seemingly good thing, yet in reality is intrinsicly evil and of satans creation.” Beware my Christian brothers and sisters, mormons are part of satans agenda! They erect their giant temples and pretend to be a beacon of light into the soul of God. It’s a lie. mormon god does not exsist. Only the Christian God of Gods! Please pray for my mormon friends. I have for years, and for some reason they don’t think there is anything wrong with them! mormons are just as bad as the Dirty homos who are ruining are country! Help us God with the wrath of evil that has swept our country and return mormons to Jesus! Amen and thank you Christian God. -Brothers and Sisters in Christ
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9:33 am
I couldn’t find the source of your quotation, “a disease that is masked as a seemingly good thing, yet in reality is intrinsicly evil and of satans creation.” Sounds interesting and surely is like the Biblical warnings against the serpent’s tongue, lies and bearing false witness but I’m wondering where you sourced it?
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9:22 pm
Probably the same place where you get your information: your ass.
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6:42 pm
As a Christian woman, this disgusts me. “Diry homos”? You are acting like the Pharisees, looking down on anyone who doesn’t see fit with your views as “dirty”, or less than what they should be. Are you forgetting your Jesus that loved in favour of pride? They are not ruining this country, WE are! With superior attitudes like this!
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8:05 pm
Do Mormons think they’re better than Christians? Mormons think they’re better than *everybody*. Sanctimonious little Morg, they are. And if you don’t submit and assimilate, you’ll suffer the consequences.
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10:32 pm
Yes because we are so powerful. We are out to get you.
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8:11 pm
“Abortion, “homosexual” marriage”
Homosexuals are very real people; there’s no need for the quotation marks.
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8:28 pm
Brother Billings
Them Mormons ain’t nothing but evil secretive Masons, minus the fags, java and martini.
Us True Christians has been warning them for well over a hundred years!
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9:39 am
Great image! I wish I could read the article that went along with it, surely there are some great details in there. 19th century theologians were far more up front about the dangers of Mormonism than many today. It seems like the most vocal Christians are being oddly silent about the conflict of faith inherent in our relations. My fear is that we’re jumping head first into a dilemma with an exit strategy.
Glenn Beck’s Restoring Honor march on DC was fascinating for how some of the Christians dealt with it– Sarah Palin was right up at center stage and maybe that’s understandable as she cultivates her supporter but Dr. James Dobson for instance did not attend. He did record a message for the marchers and it was odd because he was trying very hard to excuse his absence. It seemed too much, as if he really didn’t go because he objected to Beck’s Mormonism but used something else as an excuse. Students of human psychology will surely be able to read much into the subtext of this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtgDy1llPgw
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9:28 pm
//Great image! I wish I could read the article that went along with it, surely there are some great details in there. 19th century theologians were far more up front about the dangers of Mormonism than many today.//
Because information well over 100 years old is completely legit and hasn’t changed, right? Not like there was a fucking panic attack whenever something new was introduced and a group of people didn’t like it and decided they’ll bullshit everything to make the new thing look evil.
//It seems like the most vocal Christians are being oddly silent about the conflict of faith inherent in our relations. My fear is that we’re jumping head first into a dilemma with an exit strategy.//
Maybe because Mormons and Christians who are actually level headed care more about what’s actually going on rather than whining about who’s right and who’s wrong. Maybe they have the common sense that ‘to each his own’ and would rather talk about the weather or some douche they met at work instead of shouting like a little bitch that the other one is wrong.
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9:15 pm
The only philosophy more hugged up than Mormonism is born-again christianity. I’ve been both. At least Mormons are smart enough to know that most of the biblical stories are simply made up stories and myth.
One more thing, Mitt Romney was never governor of Utah. A little simple research would have shown you that.
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9:28 pm
Mormons are racists as well. They think all black people are of Satan.
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10:00 pm
Funny, that’s exactly what you think of every type of person that isn’t a rich, white American Conservative man.
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10:35 pm
Pot, Kettle holding for you on line 2…
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1:52 pm
The 1976 revelation changed that, the mainstream church allowed blacks into the priesthood after the Brazilian temple was completed. Warren Jeffs and the FLDS however still believe the blacks are a cursed race. Warren uses the Book of Mormon on the provision its copyright is 1976 or older. Its the “Cain” doctrine, the FLDS believe Cain’s mark was he was made black. The FLDS believe blacks will be the last race to be given the opportunity for salvation. The LDS are like the New Testament following a faith with over 2600 revisions from the old doctrine. The FLDS or Fundamentalist are like Old Testament faith and follow the literal or original teachings of Joseph Smith. Inspite of distancing the two faiths, they are of the same exact origin. The FLDS remained true to the early teachings, the Reorganized LDS dropped Polygamy and followed Emma & Joseph Smiths son, the LDS followed the 12 Apostles of which Brigham Young was included, treked to Utah, etc.
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9:44 am
Thank you very much for the clarification. I think the racial aspect is incredibly interesting. I also find it relevant with the Mormon’s large presence in Samoa, and their ideas about ancestral connections to Polynesia.
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8:58 pm
So? What does that have anything to do with anything at this point? You’re just as guilty as them at being racist, if not moreso. You don’t seem to want to rebuke your buddies’ ideas about black people, and they’re calling for their hanging and calling them all sorts of vile things. At least they can get away with a biblical excuse, you’re doing it purely out of hatred for something different.
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10:45 pm
It took a long time to change the Mormon position on blacks because Mormons have to have a unanimous decision by their apostles and the voting is in secret.
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9:39 pm
I dated this Mormon chick once back in college. She never put out, but good god she could give one hell of a handjob!
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1:27 pm
Wow what a hilarious article. You guys and Colbert should get together and do a Christmas special.
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9:45 am
No fans of Colbert here. In fact, we exposed him long ago as a bigot and a fraud.
Do you Really Think You’re That Funny, Stephen Colbert?
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6:00 pm
Appreciate seeing someone pick on another religion for once.
L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scientology.html
(The one, and only true “religion”.)
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11:32 am
hey, that’s my name, impostor. damn, now i have to think up a new one.
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6:20 pm
Because nothing says “I’m retarded” other than saying that you get the joke but think the person is still real.
Stevie, why do you continue to show how fucking ignorant and stupid you are?
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6:22 pm
“No fans of Colbert here. In fact, we exposed him long ago as a bigot and a fraud.”
Actually there are plenty of Colbert fans here. The only ones on this site who dislike him are you and the rest of the authors.
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1:38 pm
BIG LOVE Polygamy Audio of Real FLDS Prophet W. Jeffs
ebay item #200514914272
Just let Warren Jeffs convict himself! He generated and sold over 1000 such audios to his faithful to purchase. Producing 1000 different audios sold to 1,000 members and making 15-20 a month was good business, but now that he is going on trial in Texas, there is to much out there to redefine the truth now.
In his own words he admits he is breaking the law, but tells his faithful that he is protected by God!
I would comment on the article, but I would get ambushed afterwards. I lived in Utah 9 years and the very first person I met in 1992, boldly approached me to ask if I was LDS. I had to create my own work, because I was a gentile to the faith. It was clannish and my store only saw Jack Mormons, Agnostics, Atheist and other faiths, I was told I did not contribute my 10% thus I could not be supported. I made my business rescuing Child Brides, ouch!
There are approaches to blending but that will never occur. When in debate or hard dialog, “circle the wagons” into a defense posture and the “we have been persecuted for over a century” becomes the rational to not give up an inch. Hahns Mill vs Mountain Meadow Masacre, with one bloody seige, excusing the bad behavior of the other. It always becomes one religion vs another, ignoring those without a faith and to seriously promote Mitt Romney or another of the faith the LDS church needs to enlist a PR firm who is NOT LDS! It gets down to objective, if you want to present an image acceptable to non members, you need to understand them, understanding your needs, side steps the purpose for a PR campaign.
To prove my point, now you can trash me and my gentile opinions.
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4:48 pm
Tell it like it is, Rev.
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5:27 pm
“I hope they can move past such petty feelings”
well billings you seem to have huge problem getting past your petty feelings so why should we treat you any difrently than you treat us?
“and embrace faith with me.”
why would we as non-belivers do that? you just don’t get it do you? we are happy. relegion makes us sad.
“I am here to share love and welcome in an era of Christian peace.”
christains have more blood on their hands than any other froup of people troughout history. peace is something you don’t do very well.
i’m all for the peace i fight for that myself. i just don’t belive peace can be achived with any kind of violence
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8:46 pm
christian peace … is the keyword here
The only way for their peace is No other religion exist no non believer exist ONLY white american christian exist that what freedom and peace their mean
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6:10 pm
The last line of your blog tells us all anyone needs to know:
“** I would like to heartily thank the ExMormon Research Institute for their support and assistance in the preparation of this article. I appreciate your help my friends!**”
That’s like having your ex-wife provide an objective opinion on your character. At least you didn’t pretend to be objective.
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8:10 pm
Greg, the assistance I was given does not mean my journalistic integrity was compromised. The facts of this article speak for themselves.
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8:39 pm
Your “journalistic integrity” could never possibly be compromised because you’ve never had any. You spend 7 or 8 paragraphs ripping on some other religious organization’s beliefs, equating them with a satanic cult and then suggest they kick down 10% of their money? You are truly beyond the beyond.
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5:19 pm
Someday I do hope to enter the “beyond the beyond.”
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9:30 pm
What facts, what journalism, and what integrity? You lack all necessary qualities to be a journalist, let alone a functioning human being.
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5:30 pm
you are right billings the lack of facts does speak for it self.
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7:03 pm
Since Mormons believe that us righteous Christians will be their servants in the next world, I say damn right let’s take their money in this one!
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10:48 pm
You have already taken our money. Once in New York, then Ohio, then Missouri, then Illinois. You tried to take it away in Utah too. It will do no good. If you take it away, we will just become rich again. It is biblical prophesy. Mormons are Ephraim, and Ephraim will be blessed.
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9:12 am
I love reading these comments – the illiteracy, the obscenity, the name-calling, the irrationality. I’ve always thought that people with strong religious beliefs must be more that a little nuts, and you are all so determined to show me I’m right! Keep it up guys!
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9:45 am
For those of you wishing to learn something about the Mormons, I highly recommend ‘Nobody Knows My History : The Life of Joseph Smith’ by Fawn M. Brodie. It traces Smith’s life from his start as a small-time con-man and grave robber in upper New York through his increasingly delusional career until his death by an angry mob of Christians. It’s fascinating to see someone creating a ‘religion’ out of nothing. My favorite scene has to be the one where he translates the Book of Mormon by sticking his head in a large hat, reading the patterns on some rocks and dictating the result to an accomplice hidden behind a curtain. A wonderful commentary on the gullibility of the religious mind.
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5:20 pm
Certainly a better resource than that silly cartoon every got so high and mighty about a few years back…
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12:28 pm
So first off, I know its been almost two weeks since anyone has replied to this thread, but as a Mormon, I would like to clarify a few things in your article.
First off, the definition of “Christian,” as according to Dictionary.com.
“of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.”
Mormons, despite what you may say in your article, do believe in Christ. I believe that he died and paid for our sins, and that the only way to heaven is through Christ. We also believe in God, and in the Holy Ghost. The only real difference here is that we believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three personages, not one. However, we pray only to God, as he is our Heavenly Father, and the creator of us all.
Obviously you disagree with me on that point. However, does that really take away the sanctity of our beliefs in God? We still pray, we still seek forgiveness for our sins, and we still seek to do good for our fellow men. As a Mormon, I won’t say that you’re destined to go to Hell because you believe that they’re one being, and I would Hope God would offer forgiveness.
And just to clarify, we still hold the Bible to be the word of God, though we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
As for Mitt Romney, every two years before elections, the church makes a point of announcing to its members that it does not support any one candidate. Instead, we are to make our own decisions according to the standards that we know. The church also did not fund Mitt Romney as he ran.
And now I’ll come to the point which I consider most important. Despite your quotes, true Mormons do not actually disapprove of other Christians. We honestly agree with you with most of your beliefs. The only real difference is that we have additional beliefs. Indeed, as long as your beliefs support a love for your fellow men, we will never disagree with you.
As for your plan…you speak as if to wage war with us. Find an ally in our Quorum of the Twelve (who have a full knowledge of God), and then try and set him up to take over the church? True Mormons believe in their leaders, but our faith comes not just from them, but also from a personal testimony of Christ, as given by the Holy Ghost.
So I’m going to say now, you obviously have a very strong testimony of Christ, and that is to be celebrated. Indeed, your love of Christ is a great thing. I would only ask you to judge us not by what non-Mormons have said, but by what we say about it. If you wish to know our beliefs, then everything I know is available for you free online. If you go to http://www.lds.org, you can find all of our scriptures, our leader’s talks, and indeed everything you would ever want to learn of our beliefs.
Then, after learning, I would ask you to pray to ask if we are not true. Let God, through the guidance of his Holy Spirit, direct you.
I would like to bare my personal testimony to you that God is real, that the Book of Mormon is true, and that Jesus Christ lived and died for us, and that if you Pray to God, with true intent, to find our if what I have said is true, he will manifest unto you the truth.
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3:49 pm
“First off, the definition of “Christian,” as according to Dictionary.com.
“of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.””
Correct and this automatically makes you non-Christian. You do not believe in His teachings. The fundamental doctrine of your religion, and of your salvation, is in exact opposition with what He taught – Temple Marriage (which is a remnant of plural marriage.) Christ, in response to the question of the Sudducees, said,
“The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage, but they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage. Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”
There are other examples of how you do not believe in His teachings – Temple work for the dead (Jesus said, ‘Let the dead take care of the dead’) and Hell (Jesus talked about how Hell was a very real place where people can end up), but you don’t believe in Heaven/Hell. You believe in the Outer Darkness for Satan and his minions and also in the three Kingdoms of Heaven, the lowest of which murderers and rapist and those of their ilk go. You also believe in a grace/works mixture for salvation, where the Bible teaches purely the gospel of grace. Your beliefs themselves make you non-Christian. Sorry!
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3:50 pm
“Mormons, despite what you may say in your article, do believe in Christ. I believe that he died and paid for our sins, and that the only way to heaven is through Christ.”
Not exactly. Again, you believe in a grace/works mix. It is stated here in the third article of faith:
“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.”
True Christians believe in the Gospel of Grace taught in the Bible – that Jesus died for our sins and did away with the Law, ushering in the dispensation of grace (this is said everywhere in the NT). The Bible says that in Christ, we are dead to the law. Read it! True Christians do not believe in obeying the laws and ordinances of the Mormon gospel.
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3:51 pm
“We also believe in God, and in the Holy Ghost. The only real difference here is that we believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three personages, not one.”
You believe that Jesus is your older brother and that He is also Satan’s brother. This is something that a true Christian would never believe. Christians believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three personages in one God. An analogy – the Temple wall, the Temple floor and the Temple roof are three different things that make one Temple.
“And just to clarify, we still hold the Bible to be the word of God, though we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.”
Let’s clarify this a bit further shall we. You hold the Bible to be the World of God … but with conditions, however, which automatically suggest that the Bible cannot be trusted as the Book of Mormon can be trusted. The article of faith is here:
“We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.”
This statement is very convenient if you want to take the words of the Bible and twist them to mean what you want them to mean which is what Mormons do.
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12:35 pm
Mormons are hellbound racists. How sick to claim you believe in Christ, then turn around and say that all blacks are cursed. You say that they are the children of Hamm and cursed and hellbound, but then you claim you walk in the light. You guys need to get delivered.
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12:41 pm
I’m afraid that that is another common misconception. I have many black friends in the church, and believe that they have just as good of a chance to reach heaven as I do.
I will admit, however, that some splinted groups believe that blacks are cursed. However, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the mainstream Mormon Church), has no conflict with blacks.
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1:33 pm
Adam, you’re the biggest racist on this website, you’re just too big of a pussy to own up to it. One minute you’ll be saying that all blacks are violent, the next you’ll say “I’m not a racist”. Same goes with sexism. One minute you’ll be saying that having two X chromosomes is a handicap, the next you’ll say “I believe men and women are equal”.
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12:47 pm
That’s just like terrorists claiming ‘they were extremists’. They are still Mormons and they are blatantly racist. You cannot believe such things and then think you’ll inherit the kingdom of Heaven. Sorry. It’s just not moral.
Then there’s the issue of magic that Mormons also believe in.
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11:39 am
Adam, if you can find one recent example (ie, at a time when racism was not common among all churches) of the Leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints promoting racism, or, indeed, saying that blacks are destined for Hell, I will be shocked.
As of right now, we have thousands of Missionaries in Africa, not only helping them temporally, but also seeking to bring them closer to God. Does this sound like the actions of racists? We seek only to do good in this world, to help those who are in need of help.
As for your claims that because Warren Jeff’s actions were evil, then all who are at all associated with the church are evil…
I would like to inform you that any member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who commits polygamy, strong sexual sin, murder, pedophilia, or other such evils, are often excommunicated, or at the very least, disfellowshipped. The President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has no leadership over Warren Jeff’s polygamist sect. Warren Jeff’s is their leader, and they have only perverted the ways of the LDS Church.
And Mormons do not believe in magic. We give spiritual blessings through prayer and fasting, much as Christ has directed in both the Old and the New Testament, but we do not believe in magic.
Moving on, I would like to ask a question. Is God a God of war and hatred? Your language is as one who has no respect towards any but those who have a full agreement with you. However, did not Christ himself promote love towards your fellow men? When the Jews were forced to carry a pack for the Romans for a mile, did not Christ himself ask them to instead go two? I can understand that what you say to me is for what you believe to be my own good, not out of hatred, I should hope, but out of concern for my soul, that I should not perish in Hell.
I would like again to tell you, I know Christ lived and died for us, and I believe in him and all his teachings, and I know that the only way back to our Father in Heaven is through Christ.
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2:53 pm
“Adam, if you can find one recent example (ie, at a time when racism was not common among all churches) of the Leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints promoting racism, or, indeed, saying that blacks are destined for Hell, I will be shocked.”
Vulkar, you want a recent example? You and other LDS believe in the Book of Mormon correct? So you must believe in the racist comments inherent within its “scripture”:
2 Nephi 5:21-23:
“And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.”
In 2 Nephi 30:6, the the Book of Mormon as originally translated (or written; opinions differ) by Joseph Smith said that if Lamanites accepted the true gospel:
“…their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.”
After 1981, the term “white and delightsome” was changed to read “pure” — an unusual action for a book considered to be inspired by God in its original version.
3 Nephi 2:15 reads:
“And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.”
“As of right now, we have thousands of Missionaries in Africa, not only helping them temporally, but also seeking to bring them closer to God. Does this sound like the actions of racists?”
No, this sounds like the actions of opportunists. This is one of the reasons they eventually let blacks have the priesthood – because they needed to be able to build temples in Africa and that wouldn’t work if the blacks couldn’t have the priesthood. The other reason has to do with BYU’s athletic teams not being allowed to play at Stanford and other places.
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4:21 pm
Brilliant response, Nathan. It is always great to hear from people who know more than I on this subject.
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8:24 pm
Thank you! I have learned A LOT about the Mormon religion, its history and how the religion differs from true Christianity by watching Shawn McCraney’s show, Heart of the Matter ( http://www.hotm.tv/ ). He has over 230 shows, all archived online that you can watch. He was a Mormon for 40 years and then suddenly went through a crisis of faith. He prayed to Jesus and Jesus renewed his spirit and he became a born-again Christian. His story is really amazing. His website is called Born-Again Mormon to show that he is a Mormon by culture but renewed into a born-again Christian.
He is a researcher and he gets a lot of his information by reading books, articles, and online resources like utlm.org ( by Sandra Tanner ).
Another website you can go to, to learn about Mormons, their faith, and their problems with their faith is mormonstories.org. John Dehlin manages that one. He is still a faithful LDS but he understands the problems with the religion. Here is a youtube video that he made, Why People Leave the LDS Church:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZQJc5SxnVs
John Dehlin is more on the side of helping people who are going through a crisis of faith because it is not just a system of faith. Mormonism is a culture, a way of life and an identity. To lose one’s faith is to lose one’s identity as well and that is hard for them to do, this is why they cling to it so strongly.
Anyway, I hope this helps you to understand more about their faith, why they believe the way they do, and why they do what they do.
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3:29 pm
What’s more is that they still believe that black people have black skin because they were cursed by God for being evil. All the 1978 “revelation” did was say that God had lifted that curse from them because “it was time” and so they could have the priesthood after that. They still believe that black skin was a punishment by God. I don’t think there is any other religion in the world who would say that God is a racist. It is truly unbelievable to me. I don’t understand how any black person could be Mormon and be ok with that. Black Mormons must just not be aware of this.
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3:18 pm
“I would like to inform you that any member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who commits polygamy, … are often excommunicated, or at the very least, disfellowshipped.”
Not true. There are many Mormon men who committing polygamy right now – spiritual polygamy. I’m sure there are others who are committing physical polygamy, I’ve heard about some in South Jordan, and the church turns a blind eye to it. As for spiritual polygamy, the LDS still believe in polygamy in heaven. I have a friend whose father has been married and sealed to two women because his first wife died. Mormons believe that he will be in heaven having spirit babies with them into the eternities. You see, plural marriage is still alive and well within the church because you still believe in it as an eternal principle and that was taught by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young – that men couldn’t become gods unless the entered into polygamy (Journal of Discourse, vol 11, p 269). You are officially not allowed to practice it physically but you believe that it will be practiced in heaven and that when Jesus comes to usher in the new millennium, this “holy practice” will be brought back (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R McConkie).
The only people who really get excommunicated or disfellowhipped are those who either cause financial trouble for the church or who make the church look bad in the public eye. Example: this is what happened to the fundamentalists. John Taylor issued a proclamation that said something like “The Lord wants me to issue this Manifesto.” The monogamists and the polygamists took that to mean two different things. Once the feds came in and threatened the church’s finances, the church turned on its own people and the polygamists were driven underground. Another example is the excommunication of D. Michael Quinn and the disfellowhip of Grant Palmer. They were both LDS church historians and wrote about the true history of the Mormon church and got in trouble for it.
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4:04 pm
Yes, this is correct. This is why they won’t remove D&C 132 from their scriptures.
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11:54 am
Aaand I just realized what this website is about. What I said above is true, but I have very suddenly gone from thinking you all are insane, to actually enjoying this website.
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2:33 pm
Stephenson,
I think your idea of the Mormon church letting Christians assume control of 10% of their assets is noble but the reality is that it will never happen. Mormons are not interested in sharing. They are interested in taking over the world. This has been their “divine commission” ever since Joseph Smith founded the religion. They call it “building up the Kingdom of God” and the Kingdom of God to them is Mormonism. That’s why they have so many missionaries out there going all over the world trying to sell their false gospel to people. The Bible warns us of this in Matthew 7:15:
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
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4:19 pm
Hi Nathan, I agree the proposal is a bit hypothetical, but if somehow Christian groups were able to take control of a few seats on their council of Apostles, it could be the wedge that opens the door. Think of it like a corporate takeover.
If anything, I think it’s important to bring to light this issue because I think today’s Christian leaders are purposefully overlooking the huge difference between our beliefs and Mormonism because they want the Mormon’s support politically. I just don’t think that’s right. Getting in bed with your enemy always hurts you in the long run. And what if we ended up with a Mormon president as a result? Do the Evangelicals really expect they’d have a place at THAT table?
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7:25 pm
I couldn’t agree more!
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12:12 pm
just consider this: We in sweden live longer – have more money – are happier and don’t kill each other like you americans.
What’s the difference?!?!
WE DON*T BEILVE IN FAIRYTALES!!!
So suck it!
(and oh: did i mention that we are WAY cooler?!?)
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10:01 pm
you have all these different christian out there,each one say thy are right and everyone else is wrong,have you though you all might be wrong at some point,God said do not judge for ye shall be judge,I believe we all should live by the golden rule (do unto others as we wound have others do unto us) but sence no one can thats why I gave up on christian and became a wiccan at least we don’t say to any one you are wrong for what you belive on matter what it is wicca,christian,mormon ect.ect.
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10:15 am
Of course Mormons think they are better! They have multiple wives so its a new poopie hole to fist each night! When one wife gets old replace her with a new one. Unfortunatley, their logic is flawed. they still have to support that old wrinkle bag and her cvnt droppings. Oh, well, mormons have it the best!
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11:36 pm
Man, this guy’s article sounded like a fit of jealousy. He probably hates the J-dubs too. For a Christian this guy is hating an awful lot. This scripture would do him good. “Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye” (Colossians 3:13). An interesting fact about the mormons is they are one of few churches that doesn’t pay their clergy. What if this guy spent less time hating and more time loving? If everybody would do this, how much better would this messed up world be?
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11:48 pm
The best part was where you say the LDS church has to give up 10% of their assets every year to Christians in order to prove they are not a “dangerous radical anti-christian” organization. I guess you checked your brain in at the door when you became a christian.
Picking some obscure quotes from early mormon leaders is no different than taking obscure old testament versus about slavery and stoning sinners as an argument against christianity.
Doesn’t much matter though, arguing about which man-made ideology you should blindly follow is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.
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9:30 pm
OK MORMONS WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO THINK WHEN JESUS CHRIST APPEARS IN THE CLOUDS , THE SECOND COMING. NOONE IS BETTER THAN ANYONE. THE ONLY ONE PERFECT IS GOD. AND YES THERE IS A TRINITY,THE FATHER SON AND HOOLY GHOST.YOU NEED TO READ THE WHOLE BIBLE.
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10:39 pm
Here is what Mormons are going to think. Oh no I have to go to Spirit Prison now and convert all these stupid Evangelical Christians.
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9:32 pm
THIS DON’T LOOK LIKE NO CHRISTIAN SITE TO ME.
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1:59 am
And you sure as hell don’t look like a saved soul to me either!
But it’s not too late to seek salvation. Would you like some help?
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3:57 pm
Before you write, you should do some research. We might as well toss this entire article out the window if you are not going to state facts…Mitt Romney was never the Governor of Utah. You think Mormons had a influence on bringing the 2002 Olympics to Utah? Maybe…but you don’t think it was for the fact that Salt Lakt City is located in the heart of the Rocky Mountains and is said to have the greatest snow on earth??
The last time I checked, Mormons are Christians. They believe in Christ. They do believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are 3 separate beings. One of the reasons they believe that: Mark 16:19 “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.” How does one who believe in the trinity explain that?? God literally sat down on his own right hand?? Doesn’t make sense…
You are a joke!! This site is a joke!! Anybody who follows this bullshit is not a christian! A christian is someone who has or shows qualities of decency, kindness, and fairness. This site does not possess any of these qualities.
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1:39 am
Mormons believe in alien life forms just like liberal whackos and atheists. Worse, they believe in alien orgies forever after. It’s very hard to be worse than a satanist atheist, but you have made it.
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4:34 pm
I didn’t know nothing about Mormins except that they hate gay people, which put ‘em high in my book, until I got an email about them. It says that the Mormins is a satanic Plot created by the liberal atheists, and they’re real goal is to get everyone to have sex with animals! That’s disgusting. They believe that Jesus will come back, have sex with an animal, and tell all the good Christians to convert to Mormism! Now you can say a lot of bad things but you and me we’re gonna have trouble if you go after my JESUS!
Their was a lot more scary wierd stuff in that email, stuff about the way they sacrifice babies and they think aliens are growing under their skin, that I didn’t take too kindly too niether. Alls I can say is that the wool has been lifted from my eyes, and we need to cut them off at the federal trough! I can’t believe the AMERICAN taxpayer is footing the bill of this CULT on our dime!!!! Thanks Obama!
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10:25 pm
Mormons do not have to think they are better than Mormons. They asctually are. Look up ASVAB tests and Mormons, or just google Mormon I.Q. Mormons are smarter than Christians. End of story. Sorry.
http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/03/mormons-have-higher-iq-than-average.html
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10:29 pm
Sorry, I meant Mormons are smarter than Christians. If you took out the converts from the equations, Mormons would probably be smarter than the Jews. Mormons are probably the smartest people on Earth. Either the Mormons or the Jews, or the Koreans. Good luck competing with Mormons.
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10:56 pm
Christians are going to Heaven and your cult is going to HELL.
We win.
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9:39 pm
I will agree that they’re the smartest when it comes to making it look as if the gay agenda is somehow “wholesome”. If you wonder why they accost men in packs of two:
Two neckties tie him down better than one.
Two fake bibles spank him better than one.
While one enters through the rear, another one occupies the front, to keep the “convert” from calling out for help or praying to the one true god to help him in his time of need.
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10:22 am
you do realize Mormons are Christans right?
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9:35 pm
No, they aren’t. There is in fact strong proof that Mormons are one of the strongest forces promoting the gay agenda in contemporary U.S. society. Each year they pawn calendars that look like this:
This is their way of sneaking in new followers through the back door, it’s not just baptising Jews who died in the Holocaust anymore.
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2:08 pm
You do realize Eric Fulcher is right about Mormonism being a branch of Christianity, but i guess you never learned that in school. Also Mormons don’t promote the gay agenda because Mormons hate the gays. I know this for a fact, unlike your “facts” about how all “homogays” wish they had rippling biceps, and how everyone who watches My Little Pony: Friendship is magic is a homopedobeastophile, which isn’t a real thing
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